Who Needs an Islamic State?

http://chemekmolek.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/kelantan-negeri-budaya-sembahyang/

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Semoga kita sedia untuk berbeza pendapat dan terus bersahabat

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tajuk berat sangat …hehehe…kena berdiskusi ni..

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memang berat sdr ridwanto, ditambah pula penat PRU-12 baru nak belajar surut..hehe

saya fikir topik ini bagus dilontarkan sedikit masa lagi ustaz, maklumlah ‘kerajaan baru’ sedang menyusun pentadbiran. bila dah ada progress, baru seronok sikit diskusi supaya kita dapat membuat sedikit perbandingan. nanti tenaga-tenaga yang patut disalurkan membantu yang baik di lapangan dihabiskan dok berbalah pulak, hehe

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salam…

(firstly thank you ustaz saifulislam.com n thank wansaiful.com … SAPERE AUDE!!..jazakumullah khair)

few days before the election while watching the news.. i remembered telling my parents .. “u know mak.. gone other days where one could use racial sentiments/emotions yg tak semena-mena (semangat kemelayuan) so as to win votes/support.. especially when dealing with the younger generations.. the world has changed.. access to information is unbelievably super fast.. u might make mention to me of an issue say during the japanese occupation or 13th mei … so as to justify the need for umno.. n the next thing u know.. i’d be in going my room reading the books/ or googling up some articles on some websites say saifulislam.com n be exposed to a different side of the story i.e have a different perspective of it..

u gotta understand.. the younger generation are getting more n more educated.. the older generation keep on sending their children to islamic schools to learn the quran n sunnah in established instutions etc… or even to do their degree masters phd professional chartership locally or overseas to learn say ECONOMICS law acca icaew corporate governance ethics social sciences politics history etc… after attaining all of those knowledge u expect us to vote for a party of which embraces nepotism, corruption, racial discrimination etc.. u gotta be kidding me..

n so i continued .. i gave my view of how the younger generation’s thinking will be in the future.. i made mentioned of two individuals of whom i’ve trully admired when i was in UK whose thinking may not be the mainstream yet.. but soon it might just.. (at this point my thinking was probably like anybody who has been exposed to the importance of having an ISLAMIC STATE.. the thinking of those who might quote a lil verse here n there to justify for the establishment… i was aware about a few stuff with regards to establishing it.. but surely it wasnt very clear.. but then again it didnt really matter at this point… from the first time i entered the jemaah ..i was trained/read books on the importance of it.. i knew i was FALLING IN LOVE with such a mechanism or state governance.. the idea really TOUCHED me .. i must say … i probably like any other muslim have longed since to see it.. again ..as to how the governing structure’s gonna be.. i wasnt sure.. all i knew n want to see in place is .. a pious muslim leader to lead the the country.. a special committee i.e shura /dewan rakyat/negara maybe.. all the syariah laws has to be in placed that’s for sure.. cleaning up of any haram country’s sources of income etc etc… i couldnt care less about the well being of the non muslims)

now the two names i mentioned to my parents were .. WAN SAIFUL WAN JAN ..and dun seri setia NIK NAZMI… i told my parents .. u see ma.. these two guys are people who could actually discuss a particular issue on a really intelectual level .. (takde la cam kite nih… sembang2 gitu je .. ).. they could actually quote from various sources.. the quran sunnah the historical economic political socialogical perspectives.. u name… (at this point .. honestly i havent been following their works/thoughts/writings for quite some time… n so i may or may not have exaggerated ..eheh .. anyhow.. what mattered at that point was to prove that PAS is now more matured .. mane ade mak dengar lagi .. ceramah2 org pas sebut pasal hudud lagi dah.. ade? mane ade.. see.. it’s because we’ve got people from various backgrounds in pas now.. from those experts in quran n sunnah to those experts in history politics management accounting finance medics etc u name it .. ..)

cut this story short.. they still voted for barisan … eheh but DAP n PKR won big in our state.. alhamdulillah.. so u know.. we can only try.. anyhow

i then ask myself .. why ? why? why couldnt they see it.. i dont get it .. why would they still vote for that party.. n up till now defend it.. if only they would just LISTEN CHILL RELAX CONSIDER OTHER SOURCES OF INFO GIVE IT SOME TIME N THINK N THINK n SLEEP ON IT… jgn cepat melatah just because DAP menang di penang or proposed to abolish NEP etc..

the big win made me thinking of all the stuff that i said to my parents … all of the sudden i felt the urge to go to WAN SAIFUL WAN JAN’s website .. like many other PRO OPPOSITION WEBSITES.. maybe deep down inside i wanted to read wan saiful saying stuff like… “ALHAMDULILLAH ..ALLAH has blessed PAS with this victory..”…

TO MY SURPRISE… one article after another was either focus on the importance of a smaller state, a free market private ownership freedom of speech policy-driven the works of the INSTITUTE of ECONOMIC AFFAIRS thinkers such as ibn khaldun friedrich a hayek milton friedman adam smith john blundell OR a criticism to PAS itself, actions of its leaders, members etc..

i must admite i was taken aback… maybe out of emotions i tried to be defensive… n so i remembered maybe NOW i should be the one to LISTEN CHILL RELAX GIVE IT TIME n START TO THINK N RE THINK AGAIN N AGAIN..

JANGAN CEPAT MELATAH just because someone poses an argument against PAS or even the ISLAMIC STATE…

i was like WHOAA!! NO WAY HE WROTE THIS!! (but deep down inside.. i was .. btul gak.. now why didnt i think of that… God i’ve studied all of this before..)…

the word SAPERE AUDE! was written on the top right of his website which means DARE TO KNOW/THINK… i paused ..contemplating whether to stop reading his website… it clearly made me questioned many of my perspectives on the ISLAMIC STATE , PAS LEADERSHIP, FIKRAH PAS, capitalism , socialism, etc.. i hated it… but at the same time i felt enlighthened.. i like it.. it made me think.. n ENCOURAGES EVERYONE TO THINK…

i finished reading every single article there was in his website in practically one night (with the exception of his writings on luton /britain) … God i love his writing…just like abdulwahab eleffendi’s thoughts..
PROVOCATIVE MOST DEFINITELY… BUT REFRESHING…
especially when he question as to how to ensure an PAS /ISLAMIC STATE DOES NOT become just another totalitarian/authoritarian/socialistic state..

it made me realize … SUBHANALLAH … MAHA LUAS NYA dan DINAMIKNYA ILMU MU YA ALLAH…

SUBSTANCE OVER FORM !!.. was also what i said to my parents … “substance tu mak yg penting .. “.. didnt really expect i would fall for the same mistake …

if i’ve learnt anything from this part of my life is that… i should really ask for guidance from GOD every second… what if i’m still in the wrong.. erkk.. let’s hope not..

or maybe .. pas might want to revise its tarbiyah syllibus from now on so as to educate its members the importance of SUBSTANCE OVER FORM.. n avoid disregarding western theories as a basis of argument… coz i assure u the much younger generation in 10 20 years time would definitely be more well versed in them as compared to the quran n sunnah n starts to question using these well research principles which is alligned with the islamic principles (maybe not all but a vast majority of it) in policy making …

n when that time come … n is pas is not ready.. i WOULDNT BE SURPRISE if the number of voters drop drastically similar to the number of people COMMENTING ON THIS ARTICLE… it’s definitely a difficult issue to be accepted if they’ve been trained/educated differently from the very beginning.

MOGA KITA SMUA DIKURNIAKAN HIDAYAH…

sorry ..saje sembang2 ..tgh boring..
p/s wanted to write about this dah lama dah … maybe i was just waiting for some scholar /ustaz to endorse this book/thinking.. i dunno… or maybe it shouldnt even matter …uishh danger2… GOD GUIDE ME ! SAPERE AUDE ALWAYS..

still searching for much enlightenment!!

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video tu saya mula tengok di laman sdr wan saiful tapi tak boleh loading habis ustaz. tu yang tak boleh nak komen banyak dan komen saya nanti mungkin akan dicop sebagai berunsur liberal (tanpa mahu memahami apa itu liberal), hehe.

mungkin sdr wan saiful atau ustaz nanti dapat membuat perbandingan antara liberalisme klasik dan islamisme – di mana kesesuaian dan di mana kebimbangan ramai. supaya kita lebih bersederhana kalau orang takde background ngaji agama ni cepat je dipandang serong, hehe

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Setuju ya ustaz.

Saya pernah juga cuba ajak teman-teman dari kalangan aktivis ‘jemaah Islam’ untuk membuka wacana yang lebih segar (saya buat tanda kutip untuk tidak memaksudkan organisasi yang tak pakai nama Islam sebagai tidak Islamik). Sayangnya, lekas sangat mereka curiga dengan so called ‘Barat’. Padahal tidak pernah ada paksaan pun untuk mempercayainya.

Masa bekerjasama dengan ASASI menggerakkan wacana ekonomi di UKM hujung tahun lepas pula, teman-teman yang telah terbiasa dengan idea ekonomi berasaskan dialektika materialisme Marxis pula memandang serong dengan pembentangan yang banyak mengupas ‘pandangan Islam’. Terpaksa saya semasa menutup majlis menekankan kepentingan intellectual engagement untuk lebih dulu diketengahkan berbanding soal setuju atau tidak. Jika kita memilih untuk tidak bercampur tanpa mahu memahami, saya fikir ia merugikan semua pihak.

Saya juga insyaAllah mahu diperkayakan dengan variasi pandangan dan sedaya upaya tidak mahu lekas mengaku ’sayalah yang paling benar’.

Dah lari sikit topik ni ya ustaz? Maaf ya. Ya ustaz, saya sehingga kini semacam ada rasa hormat dengan Iran. Saya cuba bertanya jenis kekuatan spiritual bagaimanakah yang menyebabkan mereka tegar dengan hegemoni US. Mungkin ada yang boleh kita belajar dari sana. Tentang Turki, nampaknya saya kena banyak mencari bahan untuk memahami lebih baik buat masa ini.

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Dlm wawancara tersebut seolah2 disebut tiada enforcement (around 17:00) zaman Rasulullah? Bgmana dgn hudud? (although I’m not saying that is more important than other issues in current times)

In his books he explains why even hadiths in Bukhari are incorrect? Incorrect interpretation perhaps? Authenticity? So other hadiths on “A Caliphate That Follows the Guidance of the Prophet (saws)” are incorrect?

Ust. ada cadangan bacaan yg bleh bahas Kitab Al-Imara, Muslim?: http://witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/muslim/content20.html – saya tergesa-gesa?

I agree that some specifications are not set in stone, but the author still states something like the EU is commendable…? (from preview of his book on his website) Hmm… of course we want even a Caliph to be accountable for his misdeeds as all other slaves of Allah swt are…

On another matter, other circles look at how MNCs (Multinational Corps.) influences internationally these days…

What is democracy & rule of majority? On the other hand modern civilisation emphasizes individuality over community? Material gain over charity? Self pleasure still is shunned vs doing something for Allah swt’s sake… What right have humans have to govern their lives shunning guidance from Allah swt? (not pointing to anyone in particular, thinking of my own sins…) Another big issue is economics: http://islamic-finance.info – just ideals? Not for the majority?

Fathi Aris Omar’s blog is about what?

Ok back to action – my daily life is far from being that great – hasil Msian schooling? In Msia kita tunggu pendaftaran BR/BA as a formal coalition party? wallahua’lam – I seek forgiveness to Allah swt for my imperfections & to all for anything inappropriate: Subhanakallahumma-wa-biHamdik, ash`hadu-alla ilaha-illa ant, astaghfiruka-wa-atubu-ilaik… wassalamu-’alaikum…

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Salam ust

Tak perasan pula ada topik ni masa buka site ust pagi tadi. Ingatkan entri terbaru ust yang atas tu. InshAllah gonna give my two cents tomorrow. I’m leaving off to home now. Alakullihal interesting topic.

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salam

ustaz..from your comment, it looks like we need a hybrid type of understanding. we need help from both sides to discuss, analyze and implement a new interpretation of islam. looking at present islamisme put forward in countries like saudi arabia, pakistan, nigeria it shows that islam isn’t compatible in the modern world even though we know it should..and also looking at countries like tunisia, egypt and other liberal countries it only shows a misguided interpretation of islam..

abu saif said

‘dan cabaran seterusnya ialah, bagaimana memindah kefahaman ini dalam bentuk yang boleh digarap oleh manpower di peringkat grassroot?’

education is your best bet ustaz…there are a lot of ways i think you can achieve this and you are doing one of it right now by blogging..

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Maybe bro Wan Saiful can helps us to achieve more from Classical Liberalism viewpoint

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farish a noor, kassim ahmad? i don’t know..hoho

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hurm..banyak betul budaya nak kena ubah.

saya rasa itulah puncanya kenapa wacana dalam gerakan islam selalu tersekat.
lekas sangat mahu menghukum dan banyak berlegar di sebalik syakhsiah.

sudah tentu kita mengharapkan syakhsiah terbaik. tapi itu tidak harus menghalang untuk kita mendapatkan hujah terbaik.

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ustaz..just want to ask your opinion about tariq ramadan call to stop hudud implementation in all muslim majority countries? maybe it is not related to this topic. but i believe his opinion echoed on what we are talking here..

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Re #13: Amin – jawapan classical liberalism kena baca buku tu dulu.

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Sdr Wan Saiful,

Saya percaya ramai, sejak terkena tempias sinikal kelompok liberal, mula membaca tentang liberal. Tapi saya tak fikir ramai yang mampu (tidak terkecuali saya) menggarap idea2 liberalisme dalam konteks praktis.

Meskipun demokrasi boleh dipecahkan kepada demokrasi liberal dan demokrasi sosialis, saya fikir di Malaysia lebih ramai yang jelas untuk menggarap idea demokrasi sosialis berbanding demokrasi liberal. Lihat saja penentangan dan sikap hati2 terhadap AFTA.

InsyaAllah saya akan panjangkan dalam ruangan pendidikan di blog saya

Tentang who needs an Islamic States, insyaAllah saya akan membacanya. Bagaimana mahu dptkannya di Malaysia?

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How to get it? Come to UM on either 24 or 25 April (TBC) for an in-depth discussion with the author. Limited copies will be available for sale.

Or, go to ISEAS on 16 April for a Singapore discussion. The book will also be on sale there. Alternatively, go to ISEAS stall at the KL Book Fair.

Having said that, praise Allah for globalisation and free trade, and buy it from Amazon or on the book’s own website. The beauty of an open market…..

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Assalamualaikum ustaz,

menarik video diskusi tu. Tapi di sini, saya nak tanya ustaz tentang beberapa perkara berkaitan negara Islam ni sebab ramai orang bercakap tentang negara islam ni dan ianya telah menarik minat saya dan beberapa orang rakan lain untuk berdiskusi tentang hal ini dalam beberapa bulan yang lepas. Jadi saya nak mintak pendapat ustaz tentang outcome kepada diskusi kami ni. Harapnya ianya boleh menjadi panduan kepada kami kelak.

1. Sistem pemerintahan yang nak digunakan di negara islam pada kami tidak cukup jelas dengan terdapatnya beberapa peringkat pemerintahan dalam kewujudan sistem khalifah islam pada masa lalu termasuklah semasa pemerintahan Khalifah yang 4. Jadi sistem pada peringkat mana yang seharusnya sebuah negara islam ikuti dalam konteks zaman sekarang? Adakah kita perlu kembali dengan sistem yang telah ditunjukkan oleh Rasulullah.

2. OIC yang ada pada zaman sekarang boleh dijadikan batu loncatan untuk mewujudkan Islamic state (sistem Khalifah) dengan syarat para pemimpinnya perlu memimpin negara masing2 berdasarkan sistem Islam? Yang salah sekarang ini adalah para pemimpin, bukan sistem yang ada? betul ka?

3. Demokrasi juga boleh digunapakai dalam islamic state ataupun tidak? Adakah salah menggunakan sistem demokrasi dengan syarat para pengundi2 itu faham tentang konsep islam yang sebenarnya?
Harap ustaz dapat jelaskan sikit perbezaan demokrasi dengan sistem syura kerana kedua-duanya berdasarkan mesyuarat.

Jadi, saya harap ustaz dapat jelaskan mana2 kekurangan dalam perbicangan kami ini. moga2 kami semua mendapat hidayah dan petunjuk agar tidak terpesong dari pemikiran islam yang sebenar.

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assalamualaikum ust..
sya xboleh nk download vid ni..knpa ya??
perlu ada apa2 prog ke utk download??

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